MCM: Research

While at MCM for PPP3, I also thought this would be a good time to get publishers and artists opinions of Sexism in comics. Here is some of the questions I asked and the answers I got.

I asked Liam Shallo, "do you think sexism exists in comics and if so to what gender?" 

This was Shalloo's answer: "I think sexism is context. There is a general discretion but its also personal taste. Like, erotic comics. Some people find sexist, other people find fine. Personal taste is a big factor. Some people find that men is comics in skin tight outfits isn’t sexist, some people find it is. Its on the individual. Its also who the comic book is aimed at. If you’re drawing a comic book aimed at under twelves, if you’re drawing sexualized poses and bikini wear its not the right market. If you’re doing an eighteen over book, and there nudity that's your audience, its based on audience. There's a big thing about getting more women creators in the industry. I’m all for getting women creators in but not just because they’re women, I’d want them in because they’re god at what they do.  I don’t care what gender you are if you have boobs or no boobs as long as you’re a good artist, be a comic artist! And that's how I’d simplify it. Couple of years ago, that era when people might have thought that's the way they’re brought up but they’re retiring that phase now. Now a woman's just a person. Its changing and evolving, but its like the world is changing and evolving. Its all about personal taste and the change in culture"

I don't think Shalloo is wrong here, with his points being about culture changing, as I thing comics often reflect the culture of the time, as do mainstream films. All media seemed far more sexist in the 40's and 50's because society was far more sexist then. Such as how Supergirl was originally based on young popstar's in the media, who sang about getting married and the like, and in the early 2000's was revamped as a rebellious teenager who drank and partied like Paris Hilton, Britney Spears and Lindsey Lohan. She has been based of young girls 'role models'. Sexism is evolving in comics but from a bushiness standpoint, if a comic is written for a teenage male audience attractive women is something they are naturally interested in. It makes business sense that sex appeal in that particular comic would help it sell. But also as Shalloo points out, it has no place in a comic aimed at eight year olds. Shalloo's response can be seen towards the end of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ro9I_xoGsI 

When I asked Martin Griffiths if he thought comics were sexist, and if so have they improved over time,  he said: "They used to be, not sure anymore. I mean like Wonder woman and Supergirl I used to think, why do they have such big boobs? and all that stuff. I don’t read as much these days and there's a lot more out there by different companies. I mean when your here to see girls dressing like the characters, almost like they want to be the characters, but then some of those costumes have been considered a bit sexist. Some of them a virtually spilling out their dresses, so I don’t know anymore. Maybe its been turned back on as reverse psychology I don't know." 

Griffith's makes an interesting point. He states he is unsure, as he would normally say they comics he's read from the big two (Marvel and DC) have been, but now there is alot more variety, and there are comics that aren't sexist out there. But there are so many women cosplaying in these so called sexist costumes, if they were degrading why would you wear it? To make a statement? Or do they not have much choice what they wear? If they want to Cosplay, is there many female characters who don't have revealing costumes? Surely you simply wouldn't wear it if you thought it was degrading. I personally think that many female cosplayers don;t do it for any other reason than they think its fun, and perhaps empowering, as they happily and enthusiastically pose for photographs in these costumes. You can see Griffiths answer in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvQ1YfKWlHo

When I asked Sam at Panini Comics the same question, his response was: "Wow, okay. Well in regards to Marvel now, having been around for the last two years, its interesting to see what people take as sexism in the industry and how Marvel, being one of the big two, have combated that. Like Captain Marvel, She Hulk, and Ms Marvel and they’re really, like Captain Marvel has got a proper suit on rather than flying around in her pants. I feel, I mean they’re taking baby steps. I mean, its just very much a case off everyone has superpowers its not a case of if they’re male or female and I think the lines are getting closer together. Yeah. I’d say that it’s always been a very male oriented industry and that is changing slowly but I don’t necessarily think that you need a female to write or draw to decapitate females fairly. I think most people today, and especially Brian K Vaughan, are celebrated for writing well and equally. I mean Why The Last Man is a very interesting thing you could write about in your dissertation, that's specifically about females view of the apocalypse. But yeah I think we’re making baby steps and there are definitely more women coming into the industry to write as well as star" 

Sam has a positive view on this, and that the industry and Marvel is improving. Using Ms Marvel as and example. And this is true, her costume is now far less sexist, she has recently been revealed to be the first female Marvel character to lead her own film. But if you look back to October 1980, Avengers #200 you can read on of the most disturbing and sexist comics ever written, with her as the title character. So clearly, for Ms Marvel, comics have changed a lot. But is improving at 'baby steps' enough? Is sexism still evident? I havn't yet read 'Y: The Last Man', but I think I defiantly should. The problem is, Marvel, like any company, will never care about what is 'fair' as much as 'what makes money'. The whole point in any buissness is money. Now comics are gaining a larger female audience, Marvel will get more money by doubling their target audience to Men and Women rather than just men, and this is most likley why sexism is being toned down, for the female audience so Marvel can make more money. Is this too critical though? If they are doing whats right is this not enough? Times are changing, and with it, comics. Sam's response can be seen towards the end of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5I8MwbnsVI

When I asked Lee Bradley "Do you think comics are sexist, or deserve the reputation they have?" He responded: "No I don’t think they’re sexist in the slightest. I think effectively there's so many varied versions of comic books, its like, are books sexist? There's plenty of books where you have the male protagonist and the female damsel in distress, and vice versa so its no more sexist than a book." 

I understand Lee Bradley's point, that all media could be criticized for being sexist, and this is true. And perhaps the question should be rephrased as "do you think mainstream comics are sexist?" But I think when people say comics, everyone thinks Marvel and DC. And they get this reputation of being sexist for the body shapes and revealing costumes, the appearance more than character they portray. Its the visual element that make the first impression of them that they are sexist. But can Bradley really defend them when not a few seconds before he said "One of the things I was taught was get a bodybuilding magazine for men, because they are unreal, but they are peak physical form in terms of art and get effectively a playboy magazine for girls, because its all curves its all shadows and shape."

This is probably very good advise. Its probably true for what alot of artists do. But it may also be the reason they are sexist. If an artist is looking at Playboy, sexy women in minimal to no clothing appealing to a male audience in a through desire, undoubtedly the work they are producing will be done with a sexual perspective on the female form. It is with all probability why woman are drawn so sexistly.

But is this wrong. Ethically? Every man wishes he could look like a Bodybuilder, ripped with muscle because that is what is supposedly attractive to the opposite sex. And surely its in human nature to want to be attractive to the opposite sex, its something everybody wants. Women are the same. They are drawn what is conventionally attractive to the opposite sex. That would be equality.

The difference here, is that is is functional that men a ripped with muscle, at the peak of physicality as when fighting and running across rooftops, it surely benefits to be so fit and strong. It dose not benefit women, when doing the same thing, to be in high heels and have huge boobs. Surely Superheroes, in a fair and realistic world, would be drawn like athletes and not Playboy models. But I guess that's the line. Would they sell with no sex appeal?, or better yet would they sell as well? Its not unheard of that Sex sells, it is after all, something every living person is, has been or will be interested in. It's something that is at the very core of our instincts, as well as violence. This can be seen throughout history to cavemen hunting and finding an attractive mate, to Roman Gladiator arenas to action films and boxing and Playboy. 

The Bradley's response can be seen towards the end of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnpOKG8Sb_E

I also asked Phil Bukenham "Do you think comics are sexist? Do they deserve the reputation they have?" This what he had to say:

"No I don’t think they’re sexist, to have or the way females are depicted. I remember seeing a meme on twitter or something of Batman where it it was Batman if he was like a female equivalent and he was in all this strappy stuff, and I don’t think if a woman was drawing Batman he’d want her to look like that. So when a man draws Batman and he looks how we know him I think a woman would want him to look in a similar way, in my view. So its just men’s views of these characters but I don’t think it’s sexist. I mean slot of the girls here today they’re dressed like them. If they had a problem with it they’d wear jumpsuits or boiler suits, I think that the super huge boobs and really small waist, I mean as long as its in the realm of realism I think its okay. But yeah when you get sometimes the huge boobs and tiny waist that could be described as sexist."

This is the image I think Bukenham was referring to, by artist 'Anna' in her collection of "Welcome to if male superhero costumes were designed like female superhero costumes." Her tumblr page is here: http://fernacular.tumblr.com/post/17814450235/welcome-to-if-male-superhero-costumes-were
 
 She describes her work this way:
"Aaaaa I dunno. I got tired of guys having no idea why girls find female superhero’s costumes kinda sexist, so I, um, made this?

My main goals were: 1) Make it so the first thing you think of when you look at them is sex, whether you want to or not. 2) make it so that any male human who looks at this feels really uncomfortable. 3) make it funny, because, well, it’s kinda hilarious really.
Not trying to start a war here, just wanted to poke a bit of fun.

So, here you go menfolk, welcome to being a girl who likes comics."

Its hard to find middle ground here, as I think Bukenham is right in that no one, including girls, want Batman to look like this. At the same time, its unfair that women then do look like this in comics. Perhaps there is a middle ground where the women can be attractive without wearing silly and ridiculously revealing costumes, such as the new Ms Marvel design pictured above. Bukenham again makes the point about how there are Cosplayers dressed as these heroes, in these costumes, but I have already discussed this argument.

His response can be seen towards the end of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jGaYv_ffsc

Ellu Kaska (on her cosmopoitan avenger peices).

"What influenced this work was the whole (comic) industry at first, so I drew male comic characters in female poses, because many people draw female characters in a very sexual way until its not possible or anatomically possible to show tits and arse in one pose, or if it is its very painful to you’re back! But like, Jeremy Renner sometimes stands in a very feminine way, so some people started to draw Hawkeye in female poses, and suddenly you realise the poses is stupid when you see a man doing it. Females are always sexualized, big bum big bust, no ribs no internal organs, and its just the contrast that often comic creators, especially American ones, tend to draw ‘Ass Action comics’. Some people still think that in comics, and games, its all men buying and its not its 50/50. So I went for some covers and made the whole set and people actually like it and read the comments and think its really funny."

I do completley agree with Kaska that women are drawn unrealistically and in poses that are not possible. But a picture drawn that is bent so you can see her clevage and arse should be critised as a bad drawing as the anatomy wouldn't work and is unrealistic. If I drew that, and then showed my work to artists I am 100% sure they would tell me that the pose is silly. As far as these images go of Kaska's, I wouldn't say they belong on the front of a comic, but if they appeared in a comic as a panel and worked in the story, (for example, if Stark is attempting to get his armour on or off) I wouldn't say it can't be in or have any particular problem with it if the women were still being drawn equally nude and sexually. This would have to be at a more adult target audience though. And I know the point in

these images was to make fun of how silly women are portrayed in comics, but in all honestly if a woman is nude or semi nude, I don't see and issue with the the men being dressed the same. I think equality is the point here, and in the Avenger comics, characters like Hercules is drawn as scantally clad as many female characters, not to mention He-man, but nobody really notices this as this is the characters signature costumes, how people recognize them, and they aren't being drawn without their clothes in peoples minds.

I am not trying to say here that I think sexism in comics is equal against men and women comics, because I don't. What I do say though, is that there are male characters just as scantily clad, although they are far less in numbers. 

I also think, that the new phase of films, sexism is far less apparent. If anything, its more so against men. Although a female hero is yet to have her own film, Wonder Woman and Ms Marvel have both been announced and are in the making. Also, in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, all the leading men take thier shirts off for a scene. Sometimes pointlessly (Thor 2). The closest you see to anything of Scarlett Johannson is if you pause a scene where shes getting changed in the back ground. In Man of Steel, Henry Cavil takes his shirt off but no female character does. In Days of Future past, Wolverine can be seen shirtless (as he can be in all films he's in) Though you could argue Mystique is rather revealing in this film too. Even Chris Pratt can be seen in nothing but his underwear in the hugely successful guardians of the Galaxy. These are the movies that are in franchises right now. 

Is this to attempt to get a female audience to the film? Is it because movies are trying to combat the reputation of the comics? Is it because they know a male audience don't really mind as much and are comfortable seeing this much or the male lead? Is it because they think they will get less to no criticism for showing this much of a man as would a woman? 

If you look to pass films, it doesn't take long to remember Halley Berry's ridiculous Catwoman suit, or the pointless nudity in Fantastic Four with Jessica Alba, even if just for a second, or Emma Frost in X-men First Class, even Moria McTaggart in the same movie. You could argue this endlessly, but in my opinion the recent films from Hollywood concerning Superheroes, in the last three years, have not been sexist, what they could do is give more women bigger parts, which they are doing. The comics, still need to be worked on.

Ellu Kaska can be seen describing her work here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqftthdTPMg